Sansa's marriage to Ramsay was, unfortunately, non-consensually consummated, meaning that Sansa is now legally a widow. We are positioned as voyeurs This, really, is one of the most unsavory parts of the whole affair. Karras believes that, according to this late 12th-century law, Sansa and Ramsays marriage was an adulterous one. You need to understand the point and strength of a king. I assure you she's still a virgin. I don't accept this quickly usually, but you hit it on the head!!! This is not historical drama, so they could take whatever liberties with medieval canon law that they like, Karras said. One other Westerosi marriage was successfully annulled on the show to make Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Starks marriage valid. I know she married Ramsay but I don't even know if that was an actual binding marriage or just coercive marriage. You are also agreeing to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. Your culture and entertainment cheat-sheet. I'm just hoping that Season 5 allows it. Thus King Sigurd could have been over 15 when Sverre was born. Disturbing doesn't even being to describe it. Going into The Last Of Us, a series about a zombie apocalypse, you expect it wont be a lighthearted romp. Instead, after the outdoor wedding ceremony, Sansa and Ramsay retired to their chambers where the groom decided to brutally take his new bride's virginity. By the law of the land, she's no man's wife. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Here are some thoughts on the matter: We feel protective of Sansa On the show, Sansa is supposedly old enough to be wed several times over, but we can't help remember her as the wide-eyed child who thought Joffrey (Jack Gleeson) was her sweet, golden-haired prince. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Read the Book Spoilers Now, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. But if one of the parties to the wedding was a legal minor then the parents or guardians had authority to give consent for the legal minor. Was Daenerys Targaryen based on Cleopatra? As Cott pointedly said, Its fantasy anyway, why aim for real detail?. By the law of the land, she's no man's wife.". Sansa Stark is one of the few who actually won the game of thrones, but what do only A Song Of Ice And Fire's book fans know about her character? Joffrey's second fiance, Margaery Tyrell, briefly tries to have Sansa marry her brother so that she can be sent to the safe haven of Highgarden. The crown I guess would see Tyrion as still sentenced to die so perhaps effectively Sansa is at most effectively a widow in the crowns eyes. He intended to make his widowed sister Eudocia marry the king, but she refused. A divorce doesn't exist. 2023 BDG Media, Inc. All rights reserved. It may be several seasons before the two are reunited, but I would love it if they ultimately fell in love for real. Sansa Stark Tyrion Lannister Still Married, In the Bridgerton Cinematic Universe the BCU, if you will its expected that glamorous balls, fancy gowns, and romantic longing will reign over a, Thanks to the machinations of crafty producers and executives eager to make their productions as dramatic as possible, we know that much of reality televis, Spoilers ahead. But in the books, Sansa has taken on a significant caretaking role for him since his mother died, and it seems like Sansa (who he still knows as Alayne) is the only person around him that he actually loves or trusts. I suppose it doesnt matter which Lannister puts the baby in you. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Karras disagreed. "Consummation was not necessary for a marriage," Karras said. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. By the law of the land, she's no man's wife. Nancy F. Cott, Jonathan Trumbull Others do not share Tyrion's forward thinking. Calculating probabilities from d6 dice pool (Degenesis rules for botches and triggers). So Sansa' marriage to Ramsay in the show was illegal and My code is GPL licensed, can I issue a license to have my code be distributed in a specific MIT licensed project? http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CAPET.htm#Agnesdiedafter12406. was to marry, Being that she is captive, being made to get married under duress The context is mildly important. Being that her Mother is still alive at this time, it would only be logical that she is the only one who could decide who her daughter was to marry. The ceremony is followed by a feast with the bride and groom before the bedding takes place, where the marriage is consummated. Spoilers ahead. Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for science fiction and fantasy enthusiasts. She wasn't willing to marry Ramsay Bolton either, but that happened. A septon unites those who follow the Faith of the Seven, a priest or priestess does the same for believers in the Drowned God or Rhllor, and a Godswood heart tree is used by followers of the Old Gods. ncdu: What's going on with this second size column? But who's informed anybody that Tyrion didn't consummate? Sansa is posing as a bastard and Ramsay is a legitimized bastard. She, with help from the Knights of the Vale, wins back control of the North in the Battle of the Bastards and gloriously feeds Ramsay to his own, very hungry, dogs. If you completely forgot Sansa and Tyrion were ever married on Game of Thrones, then don't feel bad, because even the characters seem to have blocked that part of their history out. @TLP not a tv plot hole. http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/GERMANY,%20Kings.htm#_Toc3598339902. 21 hours ago, by Victoria Edel When news of Olenna Tyrells plan to marry Sansa to her grandson Loras spread to Tywin Lannister, he arranged for Loras to be married to Cersei and Sansa to be married to Tyrion. This can only happen if a septon agrees to dissolve the marriage. as both parties are of age, not too closely related to each other and But who says Tyrion didn't consummate? It seems that even historians are debating this. I assure you she's still a virgin. In the season eight premiere, Sansa is reunited with her first husband, and in no time flat, she's informing him that he's not as clever as she once thought he was if he really thinks his sister will send her army North. Siblings get busy in towers, aunts and nephews rendezvous on the Narrow Sea and sworn virgins run off with wildling women. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. By subscribing to this BDG newsletter, you agree to our. I'm going to accept this on the basis of them being as good as annulled due to nobody who would be willing to say otherwise . Both Margaery and Shae were suspicious of his intentions. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Andronikos I Komnenos (c. 1118-1185) made himself co-emperor in 1183, and then had Alexios II deposed and murdered. So it totally depends on which set of laws you apply.. Despite the Lady of Winterfell bringing next level sass to the proceedings, it's an amicable reunion and not exactly what you might expect from an estranged married couple. Even if they separated, they wouldnt be able to marry anybody else.. Game of Thrones returns on Sunday and I'm already nervous about Sansa. As others have said before she didn`t have much of a choice. Also this. Were Sansa and Arya aware of Littlefingers deceptive plan all along? Or the crown just doesnt care. What can a lawyer do if the client wants him to be acquitted of everything despite serious evidence? Otto the Great made his daughter Mathilde (early 955-999), half sister of Liudolf, Abbess of Quedlinburg in 966, aged 11. Scene from S3E8 Second Sons, Game of Thrones. Because Tyrion is irresistible to any woman, of course. So handsome, so kind, so gentle Why does Mister Mxyzptlk need to have a weakness in the comics? The show presents the marriage between Tyrion and Sansa as an unwilling match on both ends, but in the books that isn't entirely true. Don't miss a beat. The fact that Tywin does it and no one stops him pretty much shows that he's allowed to do it. This is confirmed by Petyr Baelish in season 5 of Game of Thrones when he is setting up the wedding between Sansa and Ramsay. Keep in mind that if Sansa's surroundings say that the marriage was valid; then no one (without proof) can say otherwise. Princess Agnes of France (1171/72-1220 or after 1240), daughter of king Louis VII, was sent to Constantinople in 1179 and married or betrothed to Emperor Alexios II (1169-1183) on 2 March 1180. It's her name I need, not her virtue. would not make the marriage official , which would mean Tyrion Tyrion is unable to consumate the marriage as it is clear that Sansa is terrified and unwilling to go through with it. Sure, Iwan Rheon is easy on the eyes (I'll never forget him on Misfits ), but he's certifiably certifiable and much, much worse than Joffrey. After Sansa is taken from King's Landing by Petyr Baelish, the storyline that she has in A Song of Ice And Fire is drastically altered for Game of Thrones. Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? What did you think about Sansa's treatment? Because she had no option, Cersei tells her that she is going to be married no matter what, so she can either go peacefully or kicking and sc 23 hours ago. In the A Song Of Ice And Fire books that HBO's Game of Thrones is based upon, Petyr Baelish is working on marrying Sansa (well, Alayne Stone) to another Northerner. From the beginning, the marriage between Sansa, the rightful heir to Winterfell, and Ramsay Bolton (Iwan Rheon) was always meant to be political, and therefore we never had any romantic notions about it. Sansa says and she never does. ", Sansa tries to prevent her father's execution in ", Promotional image of Sansa in the Great Hall of the Red Keep in ". Is it possible to rotate a window 90 degrees if it has the same length and width? The father had superior authority over the other members of the family. Consummation was not necessary for a marriage, Ruth Mazo Karras, Lecky Professor of History at Trinity College Dublin, told HuffPost. But even if it was, Sansa and Tyrion wouldn't need to hire whatever passes for a divorce lawyer in Westeros, because their marriage was never valid in the first place. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? So, by Coontzs logic, Sansa and Tyrion could still be married if those who witnessed the initial union are still committed to it. Sansa's characterization and story understandably gets a lot more attention in the books, so there are certain facets of her character that only book fans know. What is the purpose of this D-shaped ring at the base of the tongue on my hiking boots? Shae initially refused Varyss bribe to ship her safely out of Kings Landing; however, once Tywin learned about Shae and her iife was in danger, Tyrion told Shae her never loved her and that she was just a whore to him in order to get her to leave. Still, Game of Thrones showcases such a variety of ways that women can show strength. That depended a lot on whether the forced person made their objections publicly known - despite the possible dire threats of those forcing the marriage - and on how idealistic or cynical the local religious hierarchy was. Get the daily inside scoop right in your inbox. whose importance wanes with each passing day. Despite being cousins, the relationship between Robin Arryn and Sansa didn't get a whole lot of development in the show. separated, they wouldn't be able to marry anybody else. Wouldn't it be nice if Sansa decided to stay married to Tyrion instead of all this? Nancy F. Cott, Jonathan Trumbull Research Professor of American History at Harvard University, whos an expert in marriage history, believes its all quite simple. What is the point of Thrower's Bandolier? Martins novels: Sansa Stark is now engaged to marry the psychotic Ramsay Snow Bolton! Thus people could be forced to take sacred vows, so forcing people to take sacred vows of marriage isn't that much worse. Follow Up: struct sockaddr storage initialization by network format-string. The Tyrell family is considerably larger in the books than it is in the series, and Margaery and Loras actually have two elder brothers, Willas who is the oldest and heir to Highgarden, and Garlan. Assuming Catelyn has always been truthful about that; this means that Sansa has grown up knowing that marrying someone and loving them are two separate things. Some random peasant? He kept his house in power through sheer will. In the A Song of Ice and Fire novels, Sansa enjoys conventional "ladylike" pursuits, with a keen in However, he's a bit immature (to put it lightly) and would leave Sansa with a lot of down time while they are engaged. I can see how this match would make political sense. The only reason kings don't go full despot on their subjects is doing so tends to incite rebellion (as seen with why Robert Baratheon leads a rebellion in the first place). The problem is that as a character, Sansa has already suffered under a hellish betrothal, and since Joffrey's death she's been under the tutelage of Baelish. A place where magic is studied and practiced? Surely you jest :eek: EDIT: Seriously, she had more/less had a death threat over her head for months, plus she had being surviving this way f With the sole exception of Tyrion, who is unusually progressive for his time. He took her out of King's Landing, and kissed her! Watching Game of Thrones Season 8 Episode 3, Sansa makes a reference that she and Tyrion were married, but this is a genuine question as I am unsure if I missed something. The prospect of a Ramsay and Sansa marriage is a Game of Thrones theory popular amongst fans right now. Will you continue to watch the show? Furthermore, the professor went on to say that she believed Ramsay and Sansa's marriage was invalid and adulterous and that she and the Bolton son were never fully married. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Even if she didnt object when it was prompted to her, she couldve objected during the ceremony or simply Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Joffreys parents or rather his father the King made the request of marriage because of his close relationship with Eddard. Sansa is set to marry someone in the books, just not Ramsay. ", Are Sansa & Tyrion Still Married? After the Battle of the Bastards, Jon Snow took Ramsay captive and left Sansa in charge of his execution. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. church accept it as official. We do know this is not what she wants at all as she is crying when what seems to be Loras Tyrell's ship sailing away. That said, Huffington Post asked some experts what they thought and Part of HuffPost Entertainment. That wasn't in the official King's Landing Gazette or anything @einpoklum - and who exactly is going to challenge their word? Sansa and Tyrion were married on season 3 of "Game of Thrones;" as the show heads into its final season, it is likely that the two will cross paths. What is the correct way to screw wall and ceiling drywalls? Pray tell, who will Sansa Stark marry next on Game of Thrones ? When Margaery took the role of Joffrey's Queen, Sansa believed she was finally free of her nightmare. Now, Westeros is clearly a fantasy world created by A Song of Ice and Fire author George R.R. Where does this (supposedly) Gibson quote come from? Peter Dinklage arrives for the "Game of Thrones" eighth and final season premiere. In the A Song of Ice And Fire books, Ramsay Bolton (formerly known as Ramsay Snow) marries a girl who is posing as Arya Stark, but is actually Jeyne Poole, a childhood friend of Sansa's from Winterfell. He's like some kind of inside out Severus Snape. Sansa married Tyrion before the Seven Gods and Ramsay before the Old Gods so the latter could be valid under the other religion. For example Liudolf (930?-957) was made Duke of Saxony by his Father Otto the Great (912-973) in 950. Who is "the valonqar" from Cersei's prophecy? What is the current canonical age of Sansa, Bran and Arya Stark? Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? The request was a nicety. Baelish tells Sansa that Tyrion might have done the same to her in time, Why does Mister Mxyzptlk need to have a weakness in the comics? They are of equal social status, sort of. In medieval times minors could be married by the authority of their parents. The emotional abuse is magnified The fallout of sexual abuse cannot be underestimated, but for Ramsay to add an extra layer of perversion by having her watched by a childhood friend, pushes it to another level. At the same time, in the world of ASOIAF they believe that they can check to see if her maidenhood is intact, which it would be. , Game of Thrones: Why Sansa and Tyrion's Marital Status Is . Why, on a show full of murder, torture and other rape, is this scene that much more disturbing and disappointing? This process is known as annulment and at least in the UK and most states in the US never having sex is a valid reason for annulment. got some conflicting answers. I'm not sure that this is a dupe - this is asking about a specific (answerable) part of the story, where the other is asking about a different element that is related. I suspect Danerys and/or Jon would happily grant an annulment. With Ramsay now dead, does Sansa's marital status technically "default" back to Tyrion? Under medieval canon law, they would still be married and wouldnt need any kind of ceremony, she said. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. By acquiescing to the Lannisters' plan for her to marry Tyrion, she can ensure that she stays there and is not sent away. How will she go forward after experiencing such abuse? Alone, Tyrion reassured her that he would not consummate the marriage with her until Sansa wanted him to, to which she asked What if I never want you to? His response to that was And so my watch begins., A post shared by gameofthrones (@gameofthrones) on Feb 8, 2019 at 7:30am PST. Entertainment Weekly mentioned in their set report that "Ramsay finds a new plaything to torture" this season. This means that the marriage was never made official in the eyes of the gods, and as such she is free to go on to marry anyone as officially, the marriage never took place. Do roots of these polynomials approach the negative of the Euler-Mascheroni constant? Littlefinger seems to assume that the marriage is no longer valid/never was. Medieval standards aside, it all comes down to what Game of Thrones showrunners Dan Weiss and David Benioff decide are the laws of the Seven Kingdoms. As Littlefinger explains to the despicable Ramsay Bolton in season five, the marriage between Sansa and Tyrion was never consummated, which in Westeros means it's null and void. But there were instances in which the papacy was not the decision-maker. That they are married before the Gods, if is was forced, would the Does Counterspell prevent from any further spells being cast on a given turn? Either you are willfully ignoring the answers and this question has become pointless to answer, or you do not understand the answers and therefore do not understand the underlying premise of pretty much all events in Game of Thrones. And if it was a Friday, American History Has Been Whitewashed, But, Black Teen Girls On TV Are A Mess Finally, Sick Of TV? Is Sansa still married to Tyrion? His father pushes him to consummate the marriage with Sansa for the good of House Lannister , but Tyrion never does - a decision that earns him scorn and jest in court. Over time, the two developed a relationship and Tyrion brought Shae back to Kings Landing and she took on the position as handmaiden for Sansa so the two could safely and secretly be together. When the Lannisters hear Identify those arcade games from a 1983 Brazilian music video. Becoming a nun was considered being married to God. Cersei continued Sansa's imprisonment with the Lannisters by making Sansa marry Tyrion. Unfortunately for Jeyne, Ramsay is as good a husband to her as he was to Sansa in the show. ROOSE: I leave that to the brothel keeper. Inspect her, if you must. The two of them could make a great team, however I don't think she'll be marrying him any time soon. Thanks for contributing an answer to Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange! Lady's death in the second episode of the series is a heartbreaking and brutal introduction into the world of courtly life with the Lannisters for Sansa Stark. Despite being forced to marry the imp of House Lannister, however, Sansa the traitor Ned Starks daughter begins to bond with him over their shared status in Kings Landing. all other things that would make it a valid marriage, once they have As far as I can tell, the only authorities that would decide would be the crown and the faith. said their vows, they are married and they stay married. This is confirmed by Petyr Baelish in season 5 of Game of Thrones when he is setting up the wedding between Sansa and Ramsay. Since he's now dead, she's technically a widow, although since she fed her monstrous husband to his dogs, it's safe to say she's happy about her current relationship status. fear. by Eden Arielle Gordon Sansa would endure many more horrors after this, but her treatment by Joffrey and Cersei certainly started it all. In fact, their marriage never being consummated is why Littlefinger is able to bring Sansa to Ramsay in the first place. Tyrion is Thus the parents or guardians sometimes had to put a lot of pressure of various types on the engaged person to make sure he or she would give consent at that moment of the wedding. As a presumed bastard, she is no longer highborn and is thus able to secure a match with any status. What actually happens in the books is that Sansa's best friend Jeyne Poole is married to Ramsay, but Ramsay is pretending that Jeyne is actually Arya Stark in order to give some veil of legitimacy to his claim over Winterfell. In Lysa Arryns opinion, for example, death frees a spouse to marry another, as she tells her niece Sansa in Season 4: Youll be a widow soon. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Has she endured so long just to experience pain at the hand of her enemies? It is only, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/GERMANY,%20Kings.htm#_Toc359833990, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sverre_of_Norway, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORWAY.htm#SigurdHaraldssonMunddied1155, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnes_of_France,_Byzantine_Empress, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CAPET.htm#Agnesdiedafter1240, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLAND,%20Kings%201066-1603.htm#EdwardIVdied1483, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Latest Blog Post: Jacks Bad Movies Black Adam (2022). That wasn't in the official King's Landing Gazette or anything Any person wanting to remarry a married woman (assuming she hasn't had kids) can claim her marriage wasn't actually consummated. Being that her Mother is still alive at this time, it would only be logical that she is the only one who could decide who her daughter was to marry. Saint Bede the Venerable (672/73-735), for example, was sent to the monastery at Monkwearmouth, Northumbria, at age seven to be educated, and possibly with the plan to become a monk when older. Sansa and Tyrion last see each other at Joffrey's wedding in season four, an occasion that ends in the young king's death and Sansa fleeing King's Landing. In 1176 a man named Sverre came to Norway from the Faroes Islands and took part in the long Norwegian civil wars, claiming to be an illegitimate son of king Sigurd Munn. the Faith of the Seven is inspired by the Catholic Church, Lecky Professor of History at Trinity College Dublin. And yet, were six episodes, Most people know how much an unexpected text message in the middle of the night can ruin a good sleep.